the Pavle Milić show
Pavle Milic has spent 40+ years in the hospitality business — co-founding FnB restaurant in Scottsdale, building Los Milics Vineyards across three Arizona tasting rooms, and writing about wine for Phoenix Magazine for the past decade. Now he's pulling up a chair with people from well outside his own world and seeing where the conversation goes.
If you have any questions or ideas for an upcoming show, and if you would like to be a guest on the show, email psst@pavlemilic.com
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the Pavle Milić show
Revisiting an oldie but goodie: Mike Silacci of Opus One!
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For those of you who know me well, it’s no secret how much I cherish and fondly remember the years I worked in the Napa Valley: a place that not only solidified my growing interest in wine, but a place that thought me so much about hospitality and what it means to serve others.
Which is why I’m so happy to be interviewing Mr. Michael Silacci. This is the gentleman who oversees the winemaking and vineyard management at Opus One. For those of you who may not be familiar with Opus One this will be a good introduction. The winery was the vision of two iconic names in the wine world: Robert Mondavi and Baron Philippe De Rothschild. Mondavi wanted to make a wine that would be considered an American first growth and the Rothchilds in turn by collaboration be giving California wine the proverbial tip of the hat in the world’s stage.
Opus One debut in 1984 showcasing the 1979 and 1980 vintage. Both wines were released at the winery for $50 per bottle– thus marking the beginning of upper tier California wines. By the way, today the wine is priced at around $295 at the winery.
The wine is a blend of the five Bordeaux varietals: Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc, Merlot, Petit Verdot, and Malbec. Annual production hovers around 25,000 cases.
Now back to Silacci: he has degrees in Viticulture and Enology from UC Davis and the University of Bordeaux. He has worked with legendary names in California like Warren Winiarski of Stag’s Leap and Napa pioneer André Tchelistcheff. Silacci has been at Opus One since 2001. He was there during the constellation purchase of the Mondavi’s 50% interest in the company in 2004. Not only has Silacci served a pivotal role in the direction of what Opus One is today, but if he has it his way, what it will continue to be for generations to come. This is here, is a slice of his story.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Stay True Radio, a show where we like to spotlight uh those individuals who have followed their dream and hunches. I am your host, Pavle Milich. Uh so I'm very excited uh today and I'm gonna tell you uh why. So for those of you uh that know me well, it is no secret how much I cherish and fondly remember the years that I worked in the Napa Valley, a place that not only solidified my growing interest in wine, uh, but a place that taught me so much about hospitality and what it means to serve others, which is why I am so happy to be sitting in front of Mr. Michael Solaci. This is the gentleman who oversees winemaking and vineyard management at Opus One. Now, for those of you who may not be familiar with Opus One, uh the winery was the vision of two iconic names in the wine industry, uh Robert Mondavi and Baron Philippe de Rothschild. Uh Mondavi wanted to uh make what would be considered an American first growth, and the Roathschilds in turn would, by collaboration, be giving California uh uh California wine the proverbial uh tip of the hat. Uh the wine debuted in 1984, both the 79 and 80 vintages were released at $50 a bottle, which back in the then was kind of a big deal. Now, fast forward to today, at the winery, the wine retails for about $295. But let's not talk about price so much. Now, the wine is a blend of the five Bordeaux varietals, and uh their production is about 25,000 cases per year. Now back to Michael. He has degrees in viticulture and analogy from UC Davis in the University of Bordeaux. He worked with the legendary names in California like Warren Warsnie, Stack Sleep, and the late Andre Chelishev. And he has been with Opus One since 2001. He was also there during the obviously constellation purchase of the Mondavis interest in the company in 2004, and since then served a pivotal role in the direction of what Opus One is today. Mr. Michael Solaci, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_01Thank you very much. It's great to be here.
SPEAKER_00Uh so during the time that I worked in Napa Valley, I never got a chance to ask you about your uh your background, where are you from and and where did you grow up and about your parents, a little bit of your uh background.
SPEAKER_01I grew up seven miles east of Gilroy on a dairy farm. Uh from my mother's father's farm. And uh grew up in Gilroy, went to school, um high school uh in Gilroy, and then I went to the local uh junior college. I decided I wasn't going to go to university until I found what I wanted to be when I when I grew up. So I um took every ceramics class and journalism, every well, writing class. I was I had every position on the school newspaper and edited the Creative Arts magazine and then I um decided to go on a trip and with my sister actually.
SPEAKER_00And we What year was this, Michael?
SPEAKER_01This is in 1975.
SPEAKER_00And this trip was to where?
SPEAKER_01Uh well originally we were thinking about going to Europe and then decided we would go the other way. We would go to to um Asia. Because in Europe we have relatives and we thought, well, if we ever, you know, g got into a little hassle or trouble or or felt lonely or whatever, it'd be easy just to go get bailed out by family, go stay with the family. So we thought let's go to the uh let's go in the other direction where we know no one and then we have to figure things out on our own. And I I'll never forget the first time I um uh took a subway in Japan, you know I thought it was gonna be really difficult, but it was just so logical. You know, they have the the Japanese characters and the um um Rom uh not Roman, but um what we we just regular regular n numbers per se. Yes, and letters. And so and then the people there are so helpful. I uh at the airport when I first arrived in Tokyo I showed um an inform a person at an information booth where I wanted to go, this hostel, and she in turn called over somebody who took me to um the subway and then handed me off to someone else, and then that person told someone else, so I g make sure he changes here, and then I was guided every step of the way. And I remember crossing this large park that was covered in snow, not the pathway, and arriving at the youth hostel at nine fifty-nine and forty-five seconds. Had I arrived there at ten or any m any fraction of a second after ten, I would have been refused entry. So it just seemed to to be very um not easy, but someone was helping me.
SPEAKER_00Michael, why Japan? Out of all the places in Asia.
SPEAKER_01Well, we were going everywhere else too. Where the the idea was to travel through Asia, Southeast Asia, and travel across to um get to to Europe uh to eventually end up meeting up with my mother and her father in Switzerland, which is where most of our grandparents are from. And Japan has always been really interesting to me. My grandfather, our grandfather, spoke a lot about Japan. He was admired their ingenuity and their work ethic. And so it was our first stop after Hawaii. Hawaii we we stopped off in Hawaii in Honolulu for we're gonna be there for a weekend, ended up flying immediately the next day to Maui and camping on a beach uh just north of Kanapali for three months. So um it just the trip just kind of unfolded like that. And when I arrived in um in Europe, when I arrived in in Paris eventually, um I had already decided that I would become a kindergarten teacher because you see so many children when you travel and you realize that at that age that's when they really listen, that's when they're very open, and that's when you can have the biggest impact on another human's life. And so I thought I wanted to be a kindergarten teacher. And then I looked up a French woman who I'd met in Tokyo, and she said, If you want to learn to speak French, eat well, and earn money, you should pick grapes. So I got a haircut, borrowed a car, drove out in the countryside in Mouscade, and drove into a domain, and this fellow was loading sacks of sugar into the back of a van, and I had practiced all the way. I want a job picking grapes, I want a job picking grapes.
SPEAKER_00How do you say that in French, Michael?
SPEAKER_01Okay. And never forgot. And he smiled at me and he made me understand that if I helped him he would help me. We loaded the van and we went to Louis Metro and he got me a job picking grapes and uh you know I didn't speak any French except for Bon Voyage and Je veux faire les vendange. And but it was like I guess working at McDonald's, you know, w the cashier has other pictures of the Big Mac and everything, so all you really need to do is look at what other people are doing or look at figures. And so I would when you get a little hungry, you keep looking up until everyone starts to go towards the the break room, and I fell in love with two hour lunches and wine.
SPEAKER_00What's what's not to love, right? So what happened to your uh pursuit of uh teaching kindergarten kiddos?
SPEAKER_01Well, I have to say that sometimes I feel like I do both. And I I mean that in all sincerity because you know, I have uh we have a vineyard team, um, we have the winemaking team, we have the facilities, and sometimes there's little clicks, there's differences, there's uh little issues that that crop up and people misbehave or they try to do things their own way, and so it's like you know, giving people a timeout or having them lay down in a mat and have cookies and or graham crackers and milk. Funny enough, in 2017 we felt that Natalie Jeray and I picked uh taste scrapes to make harvest decisions and we thought we would be ready to pick around the twenty-seventh or twenty-eighth of August. It was a very early year. But the group was really out of whack. I don't know if you ever ever thrown a ceramic pot on a wheel, but you have to make sure that mound is perfectly centered before you make a bowl or otherwise it's just a big mess. Exactly. A wobbly mess. And we were out of wobble. We were out of cent off center. And so I didn't know what to do, but I made a copy of the list, I think can't remember how many things I list I ran how many points there are in in the book, everything I needed to know in life I learned in kindergarten, and I that's not exactly the title. But there were eighteen or so different things that you have to do when that you learn when you're in kindergarten. And so I put one out for every I said, we're gonna have lunch and we're gonna have a meeting, and we're gonna watch a film, and we're gonna talk about what we're gonna do this year. And so everyone had a copy of these eighteen uh topics and I didn't know what to do, so I just turned to the first person and it just happened. I said, Would you read the first one and tell everyone how it applies to us? And everyone just kind of got really into the present and spoke about why it's important what what do we do that reflects holding hands and looking both ways and taking naps. The funniest one was um when Alberto got the the the one that said simply flush. And he says, flush, and he laughed nervously and so I helped him out. I said, Well, you know, a lot of times people don't realize that we're making a food. And they have to be hygiene and is very important. So you have to make sure when the temps come in or uh or others, you need to make sure that they understand they have to wash their hands and dry them off and and uh dress properly, etcetera, etcetera. After that we um watched uh we watched a film, um Giro Dreams of Sushi.
SPEAKER_00Great documentary.
SPEAKER_01And we watched that because that's all about attention to detail and pure focus. Mostly attention to detail. But also our main our f guiding core value really is absolute wine quality. And for Giro and his b son and the team, it's absolute uh quality of sushi or fish. And after we watched that we had a bento box, and then I told everyone you're not going to be able to take Labor Day off on Labor Day, so we're going to do have a four-day weekend here, and I want you to go home and think about everything we've just seen and spoke about and come back with everything all your together. And that's how we started the 2015 vintage.
SPEAKER_00Have you always, uh, Michael Vintage to Vintage have done these exercises where you invite the team to proactively via watching a documentary or what have you, giving them sort of uh for a lack of a better word, homework so they come back and see how they can contribute to the overall operation.
SPEAKER_01Yes, in different ways, not necessarily always like that, because when you repeat things or do the same thing ev all the time annually or before each topic or each seasonal task, sometimes people drift. You know, they're not it it's you have to choose your choose what you're going to do and and what it's going to be why you're going to do it. And it doesn't have to be at the onset of harvest or pruning or whatever. It can be a lesson learned anytime because we can all get off balance. At the end of that harvest, uh or towards the end, you're you're tired. And there's been a lot of work, and so I felt that we needed to um the top, you know, the top starts to wobble and you give it another spin. So we watched the film t we went from attention to detail and absolute wine quality to purity of focus. And that's when we watched the film Man on Wire, um Philippe Petit.
SPEAKER_00The guy that crossed the Twin Towers.
SPEAKER_01Exactly, but the 76th uh documentary, so you could feel all of his um passion and his reason, but mostly passion, and to get everybody focused again. But no, we are always doing we're trying to do things to keep we're always watching people, they're always watching us, and that's what makes it such a great team.
SPEAKER_00Um Michael, if you don't mind, I I want to rewind back just a bit. Uh you are obviously in the Loire and you're learning how to say, I want to pick grapes. Uh, that was the beginning. Can you uh briefly give us clip notes of from that point then back to California?
SPEAKER_01So I went from uh Muscade to Cognac. Um someone who was on the team in Muscaday said, Would you like to continue working? We can go to Cognac. And so I went to Cognac and got a job with a very small family. Uh they had only a couple of hectare of of grapes, and it was entirely different because the grapes were being picked less ripe than we would be picking in Muscaday, or the ripe definition of ripeness was different because I'm gonna make a simple wine that gets distilled. Now there was uh two older there's an older couple and their son living in this large house, and they even though they had very small production, they had uh a um um a dis um a lumbec uh distiller. Um and it was i it was right outside this room that I stayed in. Now they knew that there was an American coming to work with them, but they didn't know what kind of American it was, and you know they've seen films and everything, so I was not allowed to sleep in the main house the first year because they weren't sure you never know. You never know. So I slept in the room right next to the Lambic um where th their son Jacques would sleep when he would do the distillation um that they would then sell to Otar or whoever. And then after that I went to work at uh uh to pick grapes. I was a porter. A porter is somebody who just simply wears wears this uh this um heavy plastic backpack and the people empty their buckets or their picking pans into the backpack and you slosh through the mud and go up on a ladder and tip it over, tilt over and empty it into the gondola.
SPEAKER_00Is that the name in French, Michael? Porter?
SPEAKER_01Yes, you're porter. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Now uh kind of a housekeeping question. Uh for you to be able to uh work in France during the time that you were there, did you have to fill out for a work visa or was this whole handshake uh come on down and work with us and have two hour lunches?
SPEAKER_01It was more of that. Um I just got a job and I remember when the gendarme came once, they were looking for um illegal uh illegals and I was having a conversation with them. They never even asked for me for my papers. We were talking, they said, Oh, I have an uncle in San Francisco, and we had a really good chat, and then they said, Well, have a good stay, and then they left. They never even asked me for my for my papers. I also worked um building uh doing window decorations and building displays for uh for perfumes like Re Estee Lauder and Revlon in Lancaster. And who knew? And no one ever I never got controlled. And what was really interesting, I learned right away, because France in the French workplace is very very much of a hierarchy. And I learned uh you have to obviously pay attention to what your strengths and weaknesses are. Okay? And I knew, and they knew, the people with whom I work, knew that um if I went into a a perfume shop, the ladies would help me do whatever I needed to do. But if I was French, they wouldn't because I was a foreigner and I was from the States and they wanted to practice their practice their English, so I got a lot done. That's where I'm not r I wasn't a very good delegator until later in my career, but there I learned how to delegate because they kept asking me what they could do to help me.
SPEAKER_00So it was just a d uh a natural, I guess, exercise before you actually had to do it. Um so my go ahead, Michael.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I wanted to say that that's a place where I learned to to really learn to work in the present and just go with the flow because um I would we we would go with this van full of um materials and then just create something. And I was more organized, and so I actually organized the van once, and within two days it was completely trashed again. So one day um uh Alain said to me, Um, we really are too busy today. You're I'm gonna give you a map, you're gonna go to three different perfume shops, and you're gonna build the displays, and you're gonna park as close as you can, just park right in front of the perfume shop if you can, the boutique if if you can, and then just keep looking if they start to put tickets on your on the windshield, and when it gets to this, I forgot if it was red or whatever, which would indicate that if a tow truck came by it should be towed. You were bye-bye. Yeah. He said, if you see a red once you see the red tag, move the move the van and then take all the stickers off. But um I went in there and I and I had no idea I mean there was no plan. I just had some materials and I went in and asked the woman, well what is the essence of this product? And and then I had to go in the van and create something, which came in really handy for me later to to learn to it was my first although when we worked with my grandfather on his dairy, a lot of it was doing things on the fly, making do something breaks, you fix it. Um but this is a place where I was totally in a different environment, different culture, and was learning to do things on the fly.
SPEAKER_00Uh you briefly talked about being in the present, Michael, and I think that uh I think most of us, especially when we get to the to a place where we're working and and we're raising families, we we almost always are are concerned what we have to accomplish tomorrow, what we didn't do yesterday, if we didn't fold the laundry, or what do I have to do with my kids? Uh very seldomly are we reminded that not only is this thing that we call life like a little wink in the side of a freeway and it's a little town that's going by. Um but uh I appreciate the fact that you do speak about the present because very seldomly do we do we remember that, you know, and how how does the saying go? Yesterday is gone, tomorrow who knows, or really all we have is the the here and now. Um you talk about that the the France kind of gave you a little flag pertaining to being there, being present. And it was mainly due to having to make decisions on the fly and not having to have a plan?
SPEAKER_01Yes, and also I uh there are two other reasons I think that I was in that mode and dri get back into it whenever I can. One was the fact we read Baba Ramdas's book, Be Here Now Before We Left, which is all about living in the present. And secondly, it was watching children. And if you think about children, uh let's say a two or three-year-old, they're sitting with us at this table, they see you writing with your pen, and then they are reaching for your pen, and then they look at the the bracelet, and then they look at your tattoo on your right hand, and then Debbie picks up her glass to have a drink, and they're looking over there. They're constantly going from one moment to the next. And that I think is is um really important to be able to do. Another one of our core values is looking backward, looking forward. Pay attention to always think about where you came from and how you got there. Think about where you're going to, but you have to have your feet and your mind firmly planted in the present.
SPEAKER_00I like that a lot. Um, Michael, so from the signing perfume shop windows, um we still haven't gone across the pond yet. No, no, no, that's fine. This is fascinating, by the way.
SPEAKER_01So then I went home and uh took home back to California. Back to California, flew to New York and took a Greyhound bus. It was either to go the northern route or the southern route. I was curious about the south, so I took the southern route. And um I'll never forget, you know, a lot of people think the hills of California, especially Santa Clara Valley, are well brown hills, dead grass is kind of ugly. But I'll never forget when I first was in the bus going home and I saw these brown hills, and it made me feel very warm because I knew them really well. Um and I love being back home, and then I um I would continue well I I got a job at Pepsi Cola. Um and I there were two plants. There was one in Sunnyvale and one in Santa Clara. And the one in Sunnyvale was like a big plant, that's where they bottled. The one in Santa Clara had only, I think, twelve drivers, and it was they called it the country club. And they put me in the country club. And i it was um it was just a really different ambience. I remember we were talking about one time with the union the shop steward was uh and the his and the the assistant of the shop steward, I don't know what you even call that. I forget. What that terminology is, but they were both with us at the country club because I think the company didn't want them with the majority of the of the workforce. But our membership, I mean you got hired to do what? Oh, I'm sorry, I was uh d I had a a route uh delivering PepsiCola and those soft drinks in Newark because my original route was supposed to be in East San Jose, but the person who had the route in Newark, which was considered to be a country club route, a easier route, said we can't put this kid in East San Jose. So I ended up with this route in Newark. But we were talking one time, they were saying we were remember we were having a big discussion, and they were talking about how you have to be this is a free country, you have to be open to new ideas and everything, and I'd say, and I said to them, Well, then why wouldn't you be why do you always criticize people who speak of uh have socialist ideas or communist ideas? You don't think that they're um you should we should be listening to them, you always put them down. They said, Well, who in the hell would think that anyway? So I mean that was freedom of speech. Um and then I'll never forget we were in negotiations uh with the company um and we went up to a big meeting in Oakland, and all the guys, the two shop stewards and all the tough guys that were in our group looked like little pussy cats when we went to Oakland because there was some really strong language and opinions uh in this huge hall with all these guys uh thinking about union nego salary negotiations.
SPEAKER_00How long were you at Pepsi Cola, Michael?
SPEAKER_01Uh a couple of years. And then I went back to France and then came back. Okay, so now we let's just go to this. So I um borrowed my mom's car, then an extra car at the house. I think it was a some big Buick or Oldsmobile. I was on my way to Davis and the car broke down at Dixon, which is just this side of Davis, and there was a slaughterhouse, a meat packing uh plant there, and I'll never forget the smell of the blood. Getting my car towed into Davis, a water pump went out the next day. It got fixed. I arrive at the admissions office at UC Davis finally, and I stand patiently in in line, and I get to the counter, and there's a you know woman working on the counter, and I and I asked, um, Well, when does the next quarter begin? And she said, Oh, in I don't know, three weeks or four weeks. And I said, Perfect, I'm I'm ready to come. And she said, Well, no, no, no. You did you fill out an application and were you accepted? I said, No, do I have to fill out an application? I just totally had spaced on what all this because I knew that that's what I was going to do. I was going to go to UC Davis.
SPEAKER_00So can you can you put us there, Michael? When did you decide to then pursue sort of the academic route in the in the art of making wine?
SPEAKER_01It was in the late 70s, early eighties. And um I had uh originally I had read about the um the Compag uh Compignon, I believe that's the Compignon. They were a group of craftsmen that would go from region to region in France. It was a trade group of craftsmen in the Middle Ages from the Middle Ages, and they would like learn to work with a certain type of wood, let's say staircases, and and they would uh work as an apprentice and then at night they would read by candlelight to study. And then they would go to another region for uh six months or a year, I don't even know how long, and learn to make doors. But they would travel around France learning to make different things with wood. And I thought, I want to be a compignon. I want to go to Bordeaux and learn about making Bordeaux wines, and then I'll go to the Rhone, and then I'll go to Burgundy, and then I'll go to Champagne, and then I'll go to Alsace.
SPEAKER_00W was there a reason for this sort of uh gypsy vagabond heart of yours?
SPEAKER_01Because I thought it's you learn the most by doing things, and I could read and study at the same time, but I realized very quickly that even though m my name ends with an I, it's not the end of Mandavi or the end of Winnie Vinyarsky or you know, so I couldn't I couldn't just get set set myself up like other people can. So I thought the next best thing would be to go to Davis.
SPEAKER_00So I go to Davis and What was the wine program like b uh at Davis at the time? That was sort of the beginning of of the analogy?
SPEAKER_01No, no, no. It had been it had been um courses uh uh the the degree had been um boy since the s maybe the fifties or the sixties. I th I can't remember actually I I should know that. But when I went, I went and I met with three different professors to talk about what I wanted to do. And actually I think I met with them all three at first together, and I said, Um, I want to have a degree that covers viticulture and winemaking. And they laughed at me. They said, No, no, no, no. And I said, But that's what they do in France. They work in viticulture and winemaking. Said, no, but that's France. Here you specialize. You either become a viticulturist or you become a winemaker. I said, Okay, so what I chose to do was get my undergraduate degree in winemaking, but taking all of the like the more difficult questions for lack of a better word, and more difficult courses for lack of a better word, that would be uh prerequisites for the graduate program. So rather than taking light chemistry light and then chemistry heavy, later I'll just take it once. I'll just do the chemistry heavy, for example, so that I would get rid of all the prerequisites. And I was able to do all my coursework for a master's degree in viticulture in one year, but then it took me a whole year to um that was coursework and and my experiment, and then a year to write my thesis. But I started working after that I wrote my thesis during my first year at Boolew.
SPEAKER_00What was your thesis on, Michael?
SPEAKER_01It was on the um uh different forms of pectin, um water soluble, sodium hydroxide soluble, um, and bound pectins. And the idea, the the idea was if you think about a um a grape berry, uh it's held intact by pectins, like what you use for jam. And as the fruit ripens, the the uh the pectins start to change form, and that that's how the berry is is able to stretch and soften. And so if I was able to able to measure the three fractions and see how that changed, I might be able to find a way to measure uh or predict ripeness or great maturity by looking at something, you know, the physiology by looking at the change in pectins. And it worked. The problem is it takes like sixteen or eighteen hours when you can go out and do do a bricks reading if you're looking for that type of maturity, um because it was so highly correlated with sugar accumulation. But you know, now we we taste scrapes and we didn't we look at those things. We we look at maturity indexes, but uh sugar concentration, um acid concentration, titratable acidity, and pH, but we those are really just guidelines now. Now it's all based on taste.
SPEAKER_00So you got done with your studies, and what was the next step, Michael?
SPEAKER_01I got a job at Bolu Vineyard.
SPEAKER_00Is this under uh Chelachev's tutelich?
SPEAKER_01No, Andre had not come back yet. So I was um you learn a lot during interviews, and what you learn is not necessarily what you learned during the interview. So for example, I arrived for my first interview and they were forty-five minutes, I sat in the antechamber for 45 minutes. Then before I got before we had the interview. And then the next time it was like I don't know, an hour and fifteen minutes, and then the third time an hour and a half. And I knew, well, this is a place where maybe they're not really prompt, or maybe they just have so much going on. I didn't know why. You know, that's the culture.
SPEAKER_00Are you at all getting antsy while you're waiting? Are you spinning your wheels or are you just breathing deeply?
SPEAKER_01I daydream a lot, so it was I was okay with it. Although I did think it was strange. And then finally I was offered um um a job there, but this was the only position that actually was a position that uh was part analogist, part viticulturist. And there was another um student who was going after a position with a winery in in Napa Valley that was looking for an analogist but focusing more had a good having a very strong background in microbiology, he didn't get the position. And so I learned that you may be qualified on paper, but if you don't fit into the culture, you're not gonna necessarily gonna get the job. Even if you are on paper seem to be the most well qualified.
SPEAKER_00So, in retrospect, what was it about the culture that made you a better fit?
SPEAKER_01I I think I was I'm very fairly flexible and um I adapt very easily. I mean when I was at B V I had four different positions. Um I started out as um half viticulturist, half a analogist. I was in that position for maybe um a year and a half, maybe, I I'm not sure. And then I became production manager, so I was responsible for no longer responsible for the company vineyards, but for uh grow relations and experimental winemaking and um the union crew, for example, the bottling line, those types of things, maintenance, which it was a job I it was to this day my least favorite job that I've had. I had an open door open door policy and I was um listening to people come in and say, We don't have enough padding on the chairs in the bottling line. Our uniforms are not as white as their uniforms, that kind of stuff. It's just to me useless our it's important to them, I know that, but to me it was like mindless chatter. And then I became viticulturist for the Hublin Fine Wine Group because just before uh um Hubline purchased Christian Brothers, we were working a little bit with Inglenook at as well. We were taking some of their fruit and looking over their vineyards, and then all of a sudden there was the Hubline Fine Wine Group, which consisted of Beaulieu, Christian Brothers, Englenook, and Quail Ridge. So I became viticulturist for the Hubline Fine Wine Group, which I probably would not so this is the reason why I fit in. So we had 4,000 acres, either uh of the 28,000 in Napa Valley at the time. Um so I worked with five vineyard management companies, five winemakers, and eighty-five grape growers for these four different brands.
SPEAKER_00You're like a human resource.
SPEAKER_01Well, it gets better. I had no administrative assistant. So I learned this invaluable skill, which was to convince other people it was in their best interest to help me do something. I became so good at it that I didn't even know that I did it. So I'll give you an example. I arrived at Bully um I went from Bullieu to King Estate in Oregon to Stagsley Pine Cellars, then to Opus. So here I am in 2001, uh March of 2001 at Opus One, and I learned that I had I was responsible for three events Blessing of the Grapes, Cinco de Mayo Party, and the Harvest Party. So March March rolls into April, and then this woman named Una, who is Swiss, came all buttoned up into my office to tell me everything I needed to do for the Cinco de Mayo Party. And so I said, please sit down. At first she didn't want to sit down, she's Swiss. And I can say that because we are too. And and so um anyway, so she finally sat down and and eventually, you know, she had a big smile on her face, felt very comfortable, said, Well, thank you, and she got up and left. And I saw her walk through, because we have French doors in the office. Uh she opens the door, and then I see her big smile become a bit of a frown, and she came back into my office and she said, Michael, I came here to tell you everything you needed to do for the single de Mayo Party, and I'm leaving doing everything. And I said, Yeah, I'm paid to manipulate people and make them feel good about it. Now, of course I did stuff, but but that's what I mean. I you know, I what I don't know anything about setting up a single deal party. And then we just by chattering, chatting and what was done before, and we put in new things, and so she did was leaving basically organizing it.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think it just takes uh uh the sort of uh being able to look at the big picture and who can do these things better than you can, right? Yes. All right, so from um from what what led you to King Estate in Oregon?
SPEAKER_01Well, I was uh Andrey Chelichev came back to Bouillou and uh I was with him he would come twice two mornings uh per week, Tuesday, let's just say Tuesday and Thursday. And one morning would be with for winemaking, the other for viticulture.
SPEAKER_00Was he a con a cons uh a paid consultant?
SPEAKER_01Yes, he was he was paid um to come back to bouillou. And so um I would go to the house to pick him up. Dor for the winemaking visits, Dorothy, his wife, would bring him to the winery and then he would have them we would have the meeting with him. He also at times had to wait in the antechamber, which I thought was very tight. Um so I decided I'm gonna go and pick him up so that Dorothy wouldn't have to drive up and we're we're gonna he al he loved Beaulieu uh number five, vineyard number five, which is in Carnero. So it's the first vineyard in Carnero said he convinced the the board of the family to purchase. And and planted to what, Michael? Pinot Noir and Chardonnay. Okay. And so we would um spend about twenty to forty minutes um having biscotti and coffee, both of which Dorothy had prepared, talking about what the two of us would do to make Boulou great again. And then we go to the vineyard. And I remember um first couple times I remember when I first met him at the child's house in at Inglenook, we we got together and we met him officially, and he I'll never forget he looked at me and he when we were saying goodbye and he said, and they had said, Well, you're gonna spend time with Michael and and he said, I look very I I'm very much look forward to uh exploring your kingdom with you, meaning the vineyards. So the first three or four visits he's just so complimentary. Oh, this is wonderful, this is well done, this is finally I stopped the pickup, put in park, turned it off, and I turned to him, and I it's at the end of a visit, and I said, Um, I don't think that they're paying you all this money to pat me on the back. I think that you're supposed to be critiquing what I do and m making us better. And he looked at me and he said, Do you know what that means if I you to critique you? You know, I can be pretty harsh. And I said, Yeah, I understand that, but I think that's what you should be doing. And so we went back and forth a little bit on that, and he said, So you want me to do this? And I said, Yes. And he he said, Will we be friends at the end of every visit? And I said, Of course we will be. And he put his hand out and we shook hands, he said, Then I will do that. And he was amazing.
SPEAKER_00Um he would did he follow through on his promise, Michael?
SPEAKER_01Every week. You didn't know when the the assault would come, but he would ask questions and lead you down the path and then just bury you. Um But you know, there's I've seen a few consultants in my career, and it's the ones like Andre that are the ones that have the that are amazing because you'll be with a consultant and it's just boom, boom, boom. You can't even write down, and I don't take notes, but somebody else is taking notes. They can't even bear to keep up with all the ideas and advice and everything, which in the end don't really mean much. But Andre would say one or two sentences. I mean he would speak the whole time, but there would be these gems, I mean just amazing things, uh ideas or or suggestions that he would just like put on the table, and it was a ma just incredible how little he needed to say to have an impact on what we did.
SPEAKER_00Can you think of an example, Michael? I know we rewind them back a few years.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think well I can tell you one thing, um the way when I learned to taste fruit with him, um it wasn't even we didn't even set out to top.
SPEAKER_00This is without a refractometer, this is just going out to the vineyard and just pulling grapes and tasting grapes.
SPEAKER_01So we we were able to I had asked, can we buy an ATV? Because Andre couldn't walk very far. He'd get tired. So they said, no, we can't buy an ATV. This is corporate life in some corporations. No, we can't because that's an asset and we look at return on assets and we have to keep the asset base. So, you know, I'm thinking, pretending like I'm in Paris at a perfume shop, what am I gonna do? And I said, Can we rent one? Oh yeah, you can rent one. I said, but we'll need it for six months, and that's gonna that will be in two years we would pay for a new one. That's okay, just rent it. So we got a uh John Deere with a little uh the two-seater and then a like a bed in the back to carry things. And I remember I had it delivered to uh BV number nine, which is Carnaros Lake Vineyard, and we went there and and Andre looked, it was parked out in the vineyard, and I said, Andre, this is for for you. And he said, What is it? I said, Well, most people would call it an A T V, but this is an AVT. And he said, Well, what is the difference? And I said, Well, an A T V is an all-terrain vehicle, but this is an Andre Victor Chelichev mobile. Awesome. So we went up this hill of Chardonnay. We were going up a hill, and we were stopping, and he loved it because he said, Back up a little bit, or go forward, or go over here. We could go anywhere he wanted. So we were tasting fruit as we're going. He said, Let's taste fruit. And then we get to a point where he asked me, Did you taste a difference, a change in the fruit? I said, What do you mean? Well, was there a point at which the flavors just changed? I said, I don't know. He goes, Back up. So we kept going back and forth until I found the area where it changed. And then he said, Do you know why it changed? And I said, Uh no. He goes, Back up again. And he said, Look at the ground. And the ground went from being like a very dark gray to a brownish color. I said, Well, the soil colors changed. He goes, Yeah, the soil's different. So let's go back and forth again and see how close it comes to that line. And and it was amazing. And then we went up a little further and he said, Okay, now stop. Look forward. Do you see another place where it may change again? And the color of the soil went to a lighter brown as it got the ground got as the slope became steeper, said, Over there. He goes, Okay, let's see if it changes there. That was one of the most meaningful um lessons I got from him. But the most amazing was the time that he came and tasted the uh clonal trial. We had a uh a Cabernet Sauvignon clone trial that was planted at BV number four, which is now the Beckstraffer Tokelon Vineyard. Ten acres, fourteen different clones of Cabernet Sauvignon randomly planted. And I was told don't in don't involve him in that project, because his son Dimitri was responsible for the winemaking of that project. And they didn't want any conflict potential conflicts between them, which anyway, that's that's neither here nor there. But ironically, the first time or second time I was with Andre w we had our photograph taken for the Chronicle because he was interviewed, and it we had our photo taken in that vineyard. So I thought that was kind of interesting. It was an omen. And then one day, you know, every now and again he'd ask me when I picked him up for Biscodian coffee for our visit, he'd ask me, How are the clone wines doing? And I'd say, Oh, they're doing fine, or I haven't tasted them recently, or whatever my answer was. One day he asked me, How are the clone wines doing? And I looked at him and I thought, Everybody's in Connecticut. All the top brass, all the all the everybody's in Connecticut. And I looked at him and I said, asked him, Would you like to taste them? And he was like a child. It was as if I said, you know, it's 14 clones, 31 flavors of ice cream. Would you like to go to Baskin Robbins? He lit up. He goes, I'd love to. So I called ahead to uh an intern who now I think works at Hansel, Linda Hansen, and I asked uh her to work with Jeffrey Stambore, who was the assistant winemaker, to put together four setups of the clone trial. And so the two of them, me and Andre. So we go into Lino's old office and we I told Andre first of all, the objective you have to understand the objective of this clonal trial is to determine which one of these Cabernet Sauvignon clones best suits the George the style of Georgia LaTour Private Reserve. Okay. He tasted through twice and then he looks he waits to see me look up at him and he he whispered to me what is the objective? And so I told him the objective again. And he he said, Okay. And he tasted a third time and then he sat quietly until we were done. And then he said, um I said, Everyone's finished? Yes. I looked at Under and he said, Would you like to know what I think? Said, Yes. Said, Well, there's one wine here that really su answers that question. It's a beautiful wine, it's very rich and dense and has lots of texture, etc. But I think it I can tell it probably has an issue with yield. So it may not be something that would be satisfactory to the bean counters. Back east. And he he says it's this one here, the green one. There's another one that's very similar, but not quite as intense, but I think it probably would be very acceptable. I think the yield's probably a little bit better, and the wine is very good. It's this one, the yellow one. And then he said, and this one, this red black is the one my son Dimitri likes the best. He was spot on. The green one was clone six, which has a which was Austin Cohen found it at an abandoned vineyard in the Sierra Foothills at the Jackson Field Station. So it's the Jackson clone, clone six. It has infertile pollen, so very low yields, but beautiful wines. The yellow clone is clone four, which came from France through Mendoza, Argentina, and is used quite a bit in California. It's a we I still, whenever we we're planting now, we're working with I think six different clones now at at um Opus. I always have clone four in there because it really to me is California-esque. It has a little bit of a rustic edge, um, but that's okay. And then the um the red black, which it was INRA 5197, which was the one his son Dimitri liked, but it had a problem with stem pitting. But how you know, and that bothered me for years. How could this, you know, we did these tastings, we had a panel, we did blind tasting after blind tasting after blind tasting. We ranked them, we came up with green, yellow, and red, black was down somewhere else, but that was neither here nor there. And I'm thinking, this little he was very short, this wise small man comes in and says, This is what you need to do. Why did we do all those tastings? I was sitting on the top of a barrel rack, uh stack of barrels in Oregon, taking pulling a sample of Pinot, and it dawned on me, I because it this would come up in my mind every now and again. Say, why did you know how could he do that? And I realized he created Georgia Latour Private Reserve. If there was anyone who made the he made the wine from thirty-six to thirty-seven to seventy-three whenever he finally was, if anyone knew, he did. And that made me feel better. And I couldn't wait to make fifty vintages of something.
SPEAKER_00Wow. Uh you have been quoted as saying that he has filled your mind with imagination. Um obviously the the little story you just shared uh explains a little bit of that. Uh, but it sounds like he was a figure in your in your past uh before you took on Opus that uh was one of your sort of leading mentors.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Now others worked more longer with him and m like Rob Davis worked his whole career uh at Jordan and he's still there, uh, worked with Andre. Um lots of people have spent a lot more time with him in technical situations. And there was an in um intern who now has his own winery, Greg Lafaulette LaFallette, um, who said once Joel is learning all the technical side Joel is the is the um the student here. You're the friend. It's like we had this relationship where I got a lot of the um abstract ideas or the questions which I really appreciated and enjoyed. I didn't learn a lot of the nuts and bolts from him, but I learned a lot about life from him.
SPEAKER_00Uh Michael, take us now to the beginning of uh your tenure at Opus. How did that come about?
SPEAKER_01I was working at um uh Stagsley Point Cellars, um loving it. I mean, Warren Viniarski is an amazing person. SOV and Faye are amazing vineyards. And I was I really loved it there. Uh I got a call in June of 2000 from a recruiter uh saying, you know, asking if I would be interested in talking about Opus One. I said, Well, I'm really happy where I am, and we spoke a little bit more, and I said, Yeah, sure, I'll I would like to interview, I'd like to talk about this job. I you know, because I knew Opus from a distance. And I th I had three different oh first first thing I did was I said, I'm gonna be gone for three weeks. And I went to France and I contacted uh Denis de Baudieu and I asked him to set me up with as many of the first gross as possible. Because I wanted to to even though I studied there and had a degree, um, I wasn't aware of what was going on there currently, and I wanted to know because during the interviews I needed to know that. And and um Denise said, Well, why do you want to go to the first gross? You should go to there's some really great places like the garages that were coming. There are really interesting things going on, and said, I'll do that too, but I really need to focus on the first gross. And I couldn't tell him why. And uh funny enough, one of my meetings was with Eric Tourbier, who who I sat with every day uh during uh during my studies in Bordeaux, during the classes, he sat next to me every day. He was the still is the technical director at Mouton. And so I got to see Mouton with him, because we were old friends, and he had come to Stag's Leap Wine Cellars before. And I just asked him, I said, Oh, well, do you ever go to California? Yeah, I go twice a year to Opus. So I got to ask him a lot of questions about Opus um from his perspective. Then I went back and I had um interviews with the recruiters. I had to write a um one-page essay. Do you want to hear about this stuff? I would love to. Okay. So I had to write a one-page essay on why I was I mean whoever was competing for the position had to do this. Write a one-page um paper on essay why you felt you were the right person for Opus One. I knew that were there were um three uh um right brainers and or left brainers and one right brainer. So one guy that was all nuts and pots, black and white, the facts and nothing but the facts, and the others were more creative. Um and not that there's a uh one is better than the other, but one anyway.
SPEAKER_00That was sort of the ambiguous profile of of the candidates.
SPEAKER_01So I wrote um uh these are the people who are going to read the papers. Okay, gotta gotta give it. Yes, yes. So um two co-winemakers, two co-COs. So I wrote the paper for the nuts and bolts guy first, because I knew if I wrote the facts and nothing but the facts, I would suck them into the paper, and then it would just blossom at the end with ideas. And the others would say they would still read it because, okay, here's another one of these, and then whoa. They get to the end and there, you know, it'd be something they would really like. Then I had to do an interview over the phone um with uh the uh for answering questions about um technical questions that were written by their consulting winemaker.
SPEAKER_00Sort of a uh a test over the phone of swords?
SPEAKER_01Exactly. But the consulting winemaker was the consultant for the headhunter, not for Opus. And so I thought I I became I got to know the recruiter fairly well. It was her first um job uh at the rec at the with their with their group. And I said, Um, do you mind if I I don't feel really good talking on the phone? You know, I like to see people, can I come in and and do the interview with you at the table? And she said, Let me ask. She goes, Yeah, yeah, we'll just record you. Then I thought, I should really get used to I should become more comfortable with get over my telephone issues. So I called her up and I said, I'm gonna come and I'm I'm gonna call you. We'll just set the date and time. So we set the date and time. I went home and I got in bed and I did the interview from the safest place on earth, my bed. And with a glass of champagne? No, no, no. Just you know, just looking at the ceiling, daydreaming. And then it was I met the co-COs a couple times, and then I flew to France. I had a flight to France and met with uh Patrick Lyon. And I knew a little bit about Patrick Lyon from Eric Tourbier, and he knew about me from Eric Tourbiller. Patrick Leon with Patrick Leon. Yeah, he was the winemaker at uh Mouton. Well, he was overseeing all of winemaking and viticulture for Baron Philippe de Rocha. All the chateau, the domain, and the negotiant business. And so um I was so lucky because it was a uh on that day, his daughter-in-law was exp was uh due to give birth to his first grandchild. And so he was a little bit on cloud nine and kind of distracted, and I thought, well, maybe I'll kind of get things focused with this question. And I asked him, Do I really have a chance for this position? And he looked at me and he said, Of course you do. Why would you ask me that? Well, because you've had two people before me as production managers, and they were both females and they were both French, and I'm neither. And he kind of laughed and he said, Oh no, that's not a problem. And so we had um a really nice discussion, and his assistant, Valerie, came in and said, Patrick, you're you've got a phone call, you need to leave, and he went and and then I went home and had an interview with Tim and Davy, which was very interesting because Tim and Davi wanted to taste wines with me. So they wanted to go to remember the California Cafe uh right where RD Kitchen is now in Yauntville. Anyway, it's w n it it's this restaurant right in the corner of next to 29 and in Yauntville.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01And we were gonna be in the middle of the restaurant tasting wines. I was gonna be tasting with Tim Bandavi, and I said, There's no way I'm going to a a restaurant where other people can see me tasting wines with Tim Bandavi because people know that Opus has a vacancy, and I don't want to get it back to Warren. So they got a private room. We tasted the wines, and then Tim Which wines are you tasting? Oh, we were tasting uh different vinegars of Opus. I think basically they wanted my take on Britannomyces and the style of the wine. And then uh Tim uh looked at his cousin who was a co CEO representing the Mandavis at Opus, um, Peter Ventura, and he said, Okay, uh, where do we go from here? And Peter said, Well, it's your decision. And Tim looked at him and said, There's four of us making the decision. Why would I be the one? Peter said, Because the three of us say this is the guy. And so Tim Mandavi looked at me and he reached out and he shook my hand. He said, Welcome to Opus One.
SPEAKER_00Oh wow. I just got boosebums. Uh that's wonderful. Wow. And that was in 2001, Michael.
SPEAKER_01That was yes, I was offered the position in January of 2001. So I had a seven-month interview.
SPEAKER_00So as soon as you got the news that you had the job, Michael, was it all celebration or was it also partially holy crap. Well or were you in wonder and you couldn't wait to start?
SPEAKER_01I I I uh I told them I I needed six to eight weeks um b to be fair to Warren. That was the hard part. I mean, I was my anxiety level was higher. M my anxiety was based on the fact that I had to tell Warren I was leaving more than I was going to Opus One because I felt maybe naively very comfortable going there. Um I felt that I had learned so much um in my career and that this would just be I would be going from making seventeen different wines, mostly reserve and vineyard designated, to making one. But I didn't see that as a big issue. But my the difficult thing was telling Warren. And so I went to see Warren and I told him and he said, No, no, we have to talk about this, and and I said, Look, I figure we've got two weeks for you and I to get through denial, and then we're gonna tell everyone else, and they've got two weeks to get through denial, and then we're gonna have four weeks to get everything wrapped up. I will not leave you hanging. Um and so I started working on blends and and working with people, uh, really interesting goodbyes, like when I told the vineyard crew that I was leaving. Uh Warren wanted to I said I'm going to go to each department and tell them personally, but in smaller groups, that I'm leaving. Because I had become very close to everyone there. And I'll never forget being in the vineyard. Warren insisted on being with me at each e with each group. So we're staying in the vineyard and people are kind of bummed out, and I'm leaving, and I said, Well, look, you know, my time here really has been nothing when you think of these mountains. These were formed four and a half million years ago. So if you look at the six years, because I and I also chose to leave to complete six full years there. So my date of departure was based on when I would c I would be leaving on my last the last the last day of my sixth year. And I said, These mountains were created volcanic activity four and a half million years ago. Look at my six years on a timeline, it's nothing, you can't see it. It's insignificant. It's the place that's more important, it's not me. And Warren w didn't feel comfortable with that because some people like to have made marks on things, and and he certainly has. And he said, Well, Michael, but you did have an impact here. And I said, Yes, but it's insignificant when you look at it over man the life of the over the the existence of mankind. So we're going on and on, and then finally he said, Okay, well you just agree that the six years that during the six years you were here, you made a big impact. And I said, Yeah, I'll I'll s I'll accept that. So it was even the the the goodbye was different. And you know, during during uh the six years I was there, we would have um um water fights at the end of harvest. We would have um I'd have everybody get together and serenade, sing happy birthday to whoever's birthday it was. Every little thing I did like that they did to me in the last two weeks while I was there. I it was it was um well so it was um March. Uh um February, March, and uh they had me walk if somebody called me, can you come out? And then I walked out and there's a balcony because my office was up above the tanks, and then everyone's down there singing happy birthday to me with balloons. And I the first thought I had was it's not my birthday. And then I thought, oh, okay, now I know what they're I you know, I get it. And it was it was really That's a beautiful gift. Yeah. And so I would go to Opus every Wednesday to meet with the the my assistant and the assistant winemaker and the vineyard guys to understand what to transition into Opus. And when I left in um Stag's Leap Wine Cellars and went and started at Opus, I would go every Wednesday to to to kind of transition out of Stagsleep Wine Cellars because I was doing so much so quickly, I didn't have time to process it, and I needed to have that time to like heal, you know, and and and interact with the you know, to say a proper goodbye. So I went every Wednesday and I did blends. And I and I told Warren I will not, I'll come every Wednesday until I finish the blending.
SPEAKER_00So Michael, it's been sixteen years now since you've been at Opus?
SPEAKER_01Yes, just started my 17th year.
SPEAKER_00Um we just got done talking about the first few days at Opus. Uh take us to the here and now. What what has your journey been like? What has been your minimal impact in terms of style of winemaking, if you can encapsulate that in in a few minutes?
SPEAKER_01Okay, I'll do my best. Um so I went into Opus and with my lips my mouth shut, eyes wide open, ears wide open, and I wanted to learn about the culture there. What's the what's the influence of the French? What's the influence of the Californians? What is the essence of Opus? And um then I did then I asked myself, what is the one thing I can do to that would have the biggest impact on wine quality and not get fired for doing it? And that's when I put together the the vineyard team dedicated to Opus One.
SPEAKER_00Um was that something new you implemented?
SPEAKER_01Yes, because uh before there would be there were 12 crews, vineyard crews from Mandavi, and they would rotate through the Opus. And I thought this is doesn't make a lot of sense for Opus because we don't have tiers. We make one wine. We make overture, but that's not much. And so I thought, how could somebody pruning in Carneros for Chardonnay come to Opus and understand our principles and practices and what we do? And that's why I felt that we needed our own team. And and that's what I just said about principles and practices is exactly what we did. We taught people how plants grow, what vines need, and we taught them, so for example, photosynthesis. How do you teach somebody who's never studied biology photosynthesis? Well, you have a leaf, it uses rays of sunlight, so light is the energy, and with that light it creates photosyntheses or sugars to grow and then later to sweeten the fruit. And the two wavelengths of light that the plant uses are red and blue. And red and blue together make purple with some poetic licenses or some sodium hydroxide, you can make our wines purple. There's a purple hue there. But more importantly, red represents passion and blue represents reason, and you need both to do great things in life. And so the guys that say, okay. So that's why they have us organize the shoots, because the leaves have to be facing the sun. And I'd tell them, remember red and blue? Yes. So in pruning, you have to be more blue. You have to be more, use your your think through things more, but there's a little bit of passion that ties it together. During harvest, it's almost pure passion, it's pure red, with some reason because you don't want to overfill the boxes or things like that. But the idea was to as quickly as possible teach people how plants function and then give them the authority and the responsibility to make decisions on how to work with a plant. I don't tell them how to prune. I have little things I ask them to do, like kick the stake. And to kick the stake, there's a stake by every plant. Kicking the stake, I tell them, I want you to kick the stake because if it's broken, then you can pull it out right there. We don't have to go through a second or third pass. Just kind of like a quick tap just to make sure that it's still stable? Yeah, give it a good kick. A little kick. But what they're really doing is now making contact with the plant. And now the plant has their total focus. And then they then stay in the moment and and prune the vine. But they were given full authority and responsibility, which they hadn't been given before, and then um I held them accountable after that, and now they feel like they own the place because they're so well ingrained to into what we're doing.
SPEAKER_00Michael, is that a uh a common practice and let's for the sake of the conversation talk about Napa Valley where an estate will have their own vineyard crew that solely works with those plants in view of like a vineyard management company that goes from site to site?
SPEAKER_01There's all kinds of arrangements. But yes, most of the smaller estates are going to have their own crew, or they're going to have a vineyard manager who brings in a crew specifically for that vineyard. Um often what well, what can happen with a really high-end small estate is they may bring in a really well-known consultant or um vineyard management company, and then they'll morph into maybe they'll hire one of the people and they create their own crew because these high-end vineyard management companies are quite expensive, and no matter how much you sell your wine for, the the costs add up and you need to watch them. Um for us, it's um mostly we have our crew, and the number of people that work with us that we need is about uh well, is based on how many vines we have to prune. And it's also based on it's based on how many vines we have to prune. So we have a team, but then we have an outside group that comes in, a vineyard management company that we work with, and we have uh let's say three or four people that supplement our team and that's a way to get them to understand how we prune and we train their their people. Their people prune prune and do everything really well but we want them to prune according to our we want them to implement our principles. And then we have other teams of theirs that will work alongside our team because we have too much for our team to do. We want uh enough work for our team the people who are directly hired by Opus and actually the people that supplement our team we have enough work for them for the full year. We don't want people to be laid off. And that's why we have that specific number. But we do get supplemental people but they're the same people every year.
SPEAKER_00In in talking about you given uh your crew autonomy and and some ownership over what they do please correct me if I'm wrong but I did read somewhere that based on on the performance of some crews, uh some crews will make it to the final blend, is that correct? Or there is a little tiny tiny bit of competition among them?
SPEAKER_01There there is, but that's a different story. Um the um I had this sell I split the cellar crew into two teams based on a daydream I had on jury duty in May of 2004. And the idea was I realized that the vineyard workers had had implemented what we taught them and they helped to change the character of the fruit, improve the quality of the fruit coming in the winery. And I thought about the cellar workers, the six of them, there were eight now and I knew that they understood the mechanisms of winemaking but I didn't know if they felt passion for what they did. So I divided them up into two teams of three and I told them I'm giving you um I decide who's on each team because I want there to be um tension. I want them to be with people they don't necessarily get along with like not their buddies but I want them to be with people they have to reach consensus with because that's what teams are all about not just agreeing with them because they're friends. And I told them you're going to each team will have twenty two rows of vineyard in our best vineyard and you will prune, sucker, thin, do green harvest and taste to make harvest decisions and you'll have a 21 tank to make one hundred and twenty cases of wine each and the response was No no no no no we don't make decisions, we do what you tell us to do. And I said that's the problem until everyone at Opus is engaged in the pursuit of absolute wine quality we can't get to that next level fast enough. So I didn't ask you if you want to do this, you're going to do it and you made me think of everyone so we immediately went to a um uh improve the program by putting on each team three new people every year a vineyard worker, a an office worker and a tour guide. And my goal is that one day um I will be able to say today everyone working at Opus has made wine at Opus one. Now the competition is in the blind tastings when we're making the blend each year does you truly succeed as a team if your wine is chosen for the blend of Opus and in since 2004 in four and five they made it six neither team made it. They went out on an which is what I wanted them to do. We need to learn from them. Seven one team made it back in fifteen one team was on the bubble right till the very end. And then each team member gets to take home two bottles it's the only wine other than Opus or Opus overture that leaves Opus um each team member gets to take home two bottles of their team's wine and one bottle of the other team's wine. And share that with their family and friends.
SPEAKER_00If based on all your years of of doing what you've been doing in in wine country and and in your own career, if you can briefly give us three three little pointers of of of things that you hold true to your heart pertaining to your performance and what you do for a living what are the three things that have helped you the most throughout your professional tenures and and and your current um position?
SPEAKER_01The first is to listen to everyone because um everyone has an important voice and perspective. Secondly is to help people achieve their fullest potential and third is to make the wines that we make at Opus which are wines that express time and place. So the place is our Forest Vineyards and that the place comes through in the mouthfeel, the texture, the structure of the wine times comes through time is a reflection of the season so you have a cool uh moist year like eleven, the wine's gonna be herbal with some fresh fruit. You have a very warm uh um fun year like seven and the fruit the it's gonna be more ripe fruit. But the texture and the structure and the mouthfeel you can tell that as you move across our vintages or since I've been there. And that's been a goal of mine because I don't want to make um a commercial or a commercial beer that you know is the same or a jug wine. That and I understand jug wines people want the same wine. When they go down to pick up their their jug of their gallon of of wine from the grocery store they want it to taste the same as they did five years ago and I understand that. But we're making wines where people say whoa this is so why is this wine so different?
SPEAKER_00I hear that it was the conditions were like such and such in 2005 and then wow taste this one the 2007 but they're familiar Michael thank you so much uh like I promised earlier uh I did wanted to share with with our listeners um you had asked briefly if if we carried Opus one or when and if and when or or if we have um during my very short professional time uh tenure in Napa Valley I was there for uh a little bit over four years um I came as a highly impressionable youth to one country and having worked in the restaurant business I got to meet a lot of people there and and I was like uh like under tasting different grape varietals I was uh starstruck because uh I met a lot of wonderful people and one thing that I learned in Napa Valley was the generosity of spirit of a lot of the winemakers and farmers that I met during my time there. Um towards my the end of the time that I worked in Napa I was working for Bettina at Angel. Anyway so uh I was made an offer I couldn't refuse to return to the Valley and truth be told I still think of Napa Valley quite frequently a little tiny piece of my heart still there. So I gave notice to Bettina and I'm wrapping up the house. The movers are coming the next day and I am with my wife on the driveway and I don't think either of us had taken a shower we had the hatchet mark on our faces and uh we're selling used IKEA furniture. Now nobody really wants to buy used IKEA furniture uh this really fancy schmancy car pulled up to my house and I kind of elbow my wife and I said I have no idea what this car is doing here and um so this gentleman pulls out uh comes out of the car and and and it's Michael and he says Pavli I'm so sorry I broke the law and and I'm looking around like waiting for police officers to show up and I said you know I convinced Vettina to let me know where you lived. I found out that you were living and I didn't want you to to leave without a little token. We'll we'll miss you uh a great deal here in Napa Valley. Uh and you handed me a bottle of Opus One which we did not lay down because I don't believe in collecting uh life's too short so we drank it as soon as we arrived I think it was for Thanksgiving in 2007 I want to say uh so when you asked Michael uh if we carried Opus I um it's not necessarily a nepotism placement but I will tell you a couple of things that talk about generosity of spirit of the many tastings that I experienced in Napa Valley my tasting at Opus One will forever be memorable not only because uh Opus One is not only historically speaking iconic and it's a beautiful place to visit and the wines were delicious but it was the the level of hospitality and how at ease you made everyone feel um but uh after that last gesture uh because you know I'm I think I'm for the most part insecure by nature and and uh the fact that you made that little gesture at the end uh I still drink the wines uh but as soon as I opened up my own little place with my business partner Charlene Batman about eight years ago I told myself I will always have opus wine on my list uh because it's really about the relationship and that gesture that you have with me Michael I will never ever forget uh you are still a gentleman you haven't changed a bit so all I can say is please don't go changing uh I appreciate your time so much Michael thank you so much for being here uh it means a lot and uh this brings us to the end of the show ladies and gentlemen uh this is your host Pavle Milich remember to live your life and nobody else's thank you for your time Michael thank you